What a blasphemous smear job. Christ didnt say a lot of things but one thing He did say was that the greatest commandment was to love God with practically everything. Homosexuality is contrary to the nature of God. How can you love God while doing something contrary to His nature. You cannot comprehend the holiness of God.

I'm sorry, JB, but you can again explain HOW homsexuality is contrary to "the nature of God"? I mean explain it textually, based on the word of Christ from the four gospels. This is exactly the point of the post: don't just SAY homosexuality is against the word of Christ, prove it to me. For instance, I could say that Christ hated dwarves, that dwarvishness is against the nature of God. Or that he hated people who pierced their ears. But then I'd have to back these claims up with some text, amigo. Can you do so?

Dogmatists are never very good at reality. The enormous variety of nature is constantly being pruned into "good" and "evil" simply because it doesn't fit with someones idea of "right". The great forest of exotic blooms that is reality is always being shorn by taxonomists who simply can't face the great abundance.

Actually if you read Romans 1:24-28 in the new testament of the Holy Bible you will see that it states that women with women and men with men is unholy. Paul wrote Romans, however just like the first 4 Gospels, the entire Bible is the inspired Word of God. If God didn't teach it Paul would nothave written it. Either you believe all of The Bible or not. If you are a Christian you can not just pick & choose what you want to believe. The Bible doesn't advocate hatred like man does, you are supposed to love everyone but hate the sin. That is not bigotry.

At Marie:
"Either you believe all of The Bible are no. If you are a Christian you can not just pick & choose what you want to believe."

Is that so? Then, you would agree to the following, correct?
Exodus 21: This chapter says that we can sell our daughters into slavery. If it is in the Bible, then it is the word of God, and thus slavery, at least towards females, should be legal, right?

Now, in Leviticus, the same book that in the Bible condemns homosexuality, chapter eleven CLEARLY states that anyone touching the skin of a dead pig is unclean. So, which team should we kill off first? The pros like the Raiders, or perhaps the team at the local high school?

Or how about chapter 35 in Exodus, verse 2, allowing me to stone my father for doing his job on sundays. Why, according to this, we should kill everyone who doesn't treat the Sabbath as a holy day of no work.

Should a child be put to death for fighting back against an abusive father? Should my grandfather's friends be stoned for planting multiple crops in the same field? We should all shun the poor little girls and boys who have no power over the fact that they were born out of wedlock? If my uncle merely suspects that his wife may be having an affair, should he burn her or drown her? Does my sister need to visit for me to burn my mom for sewing multiple colors together in a dress, or can my brother and I take care of it ourselves?

Since ALL of the above are in the Bible, then they are the direct word of God and MUST be followed, right? If I believe that Jesus was the Son of God, I need to believe everything else, because it is all in the Bible? Right...

On a sidenote to Plummer, I can't agree with you more.

I agree. You can not pick and choose what you want to believe/follow. But Christians do all the time. Homosexuality is, according to the majority of Christians, against God and shouldn't be tolerated.... And yet things that are 'against God', such as Divorce, are not only legal but tolerated all the time by Christians.

I believe that if Homosexuality was such a horrible sin there would be 11 commandments, the 11th being something to the effect of "Thou Shall Not Be Homosexual" or there would be 8 deadly sins... The 8th being Homosexuality.
But neither exists.

But the verse that says to love your neighbor does exist.... And yet Christians refuse to show Homosexuals the love and acceptance that they show their Hetrosexual neighbors. They refuse to believe that they deserve the same rights and freedoms... But then who are they to be the judge of that? According to the bible, they are not supposed to judge ANYONE unless they themselves are without sin... And if they're truly Christians, then they know that they never have been and never will be without sin. So they do not have the right to judge anyone.

Scorpius,
I think Marie and many other Christians might answer you by saying that the New Testament changes many things that were found in the Old Testament. In the New Testament Christ doesn't advocate selling daughters into slavery. Exodus and Leviticus are Old law. Christ never did, however, say anything against the idea of slavery. In fact in Luke 12:47-48 Jesus tells us how to treat our slaves; "that servant . . . shall be beaten with many stripes."

God save us from Christians that aren't selective about what parts of the Bible they choose to follow as God's Law. For that matter, God save us from those that are selective but aren't even aware of it.

Christ did say-
1. Love God with all your heart
2. Love others

Unfortunately, the Jewish Laws (which Christ followed) and the non-Jewish Christian tradition (see Paul's letters in the Bible) all condemn sexual immorality (sex outside of marriage) and sodomy as abhorrent to God.

So the practices of a lesbian or gay couple are a violation of 1. which if you are a Christian outrank 2.

--------

So which is the more cruel thing?

To leave someone in a school which has to regularly condemn your parent's lifestyle or change their nature?

To enroll your kid in a school, which condemns your lifestyle?

Shouldn't the parents have read the rule on one parent living a Christian lifestyle?

Jesus while not directly mentioning the word homosexulaity made his views very clear by upholding all of the OT scriptures. All the OT includes the Levitical passages against homosexuality and the Genesis passages concerning marriage. His views against gay marriage are equally clear. Read mark 10:6-9 or Matthew 19:4-6. To say jesus is slient on the subject shows a very limited knowledge of the Bible as a whole which plagues many of the secular commentaters in our society today.

"Forbid not the Children to come unto me"... say's the Lord Himself!.Remember Christian,Judgement will begin with the House Of God First.Please dont put words into our Lords mouth,nor sit upon His throne and judge unrighteously.For your misled works are as filthy rags! Rather Be prefect as You Father in Heaven,Christ said.May God forgive your Cold Hearts,and your ignorant minds,when you were told that could have the same mind that was in Christ Jesus.Forgive Them Father for the no not what they do!!! Thanks John for not being like minded.

I am so tired of the "pick and choose" christians, that say they are the moral majority. Meanwhile they have created more poverty, sickness, hatred, and bigotry that any other people before the. WWJD? he would beat all of your asses.

Inspired Word of God, my foot. Every culture on the planet thinks it has the Inspired Word of God. The Bible is just the mythology of a desert tribal people, fresh out of the Neolithic and barely literate, that some ignoramuses today, who would probably be perfectly at home in the Neolithic, take too literally.

The bible comes to us from a period of time when writing was MAGIC; when what was old was revered and better than what came after. Even today people who can read and write wield incredible power, witness the spin doctors in DC; how much more so in an era when barely anyone knew how to read?

Sure there are important messages in the bible but they are sociological and historical messages. Like building a strong society by not stealing, murdering or boffing the neighbor's wifey. Nobody said they were stupid way back when. But they were superstitious and did not understand the workings of nature and the world the way we do today. What is your excuse? Oh yeah, ninth grade science was too boring and its way easier to believe in evolution anyway....

If you want to take the bible literally you might as well believe in Zeus, Athena and the Easter Bunny. The bible is a human book, compiled, edited and translated by humans full of human errors; you don't believe it? Just reread Scorpius posting.

Unbeknownst to many sitting in the pews on Sunday are some things that are taught in seminary (yes, I have a Masters of Divinity degree from Central Baptist Theological Seminary). One, some of Paul's writings might not be Paul's writings. A common practice of the time was for someone who considered him or her self a disciple of a religious or philosophical figure of reknown was to write their own beliefs and post them under that person's name rather than their own. The letters of Paul that have come down to us include several that use language found nowhere else in other letters by Paul which may strongly indicate Paul may not have been the author. This is not unusual throughout most of the Old and New Testaments. Another note, inspired by God does not necessarily mean handed down by God. Paul's teachings on celibacy, for example, he admits are his own opinion. Likewise, when Christ speaks of divorce, Jesus said that Moses gave men that "due to your hardness of heart".

What does this have to do with the issue addressed? Well. also according to Jesus the Christ is the "New Covenant" by which we are no longer under the Law, but under Grace, for all the Law proved was we could not follow it. The "New Covenant" may succinctly be summed up in another passage where Jesus the Christ acknowledges that the two greatest commandments are "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your might"..."and the second is like unto it, you shall love your neighbor as yourself." Little enough love in this world of any kind, be it the agape we are to have for each other or the philios/eros which is found in relationships between those who would be friends, lovers, partners and mates in a monogamous, devoted relationship (which it sounds as if these women have after 22 years) This is skimpy and perhaps not as in depth as it could be, but don't want to be a space hog. I suggest to you that through prayer and meditation and yes, study of the Bible as the "inspired" Word of God, i.e. humanh beings trying to understand what God is trying to tell us and realizing that errors occur in trying to understand (recommend the book of Judges for stories about some real blunders) God. It is the record of the struggle to which we add our own to understand. Not that writ indelibly as the be all and end all...for God delights when we seek God and God's True Nature (Love) not use our own blundering about trying to understand to play isogesis (cut and paste interpretation for purposes of supporting a personal agenda or untenable position.)

As any childhood game of operator will show you, any communication is open to the interpretation of the receiver. Perhaps God gave the words to men, but men wrote them down with their own interpretations based on their own world views. The bible is a 2,000 year old game of operator that is still being played today. How can we possibly know through all those iterations and changes that reflect the current thinking of the time that it is still "the word of God". Why did God give them the word, then mysteriously shut up? Why are there so many different versions of the bible? Why, in 325 AD did a bunch of bishops gather together to debate whether Jesus was a part of God, or some sort of demi-god? How could they reach any sort of meaningful decision without being 1st hand witnesses?

The point here is not to take any book or writing as an all or nothing truth. If you have a problem with people who live their lives differently then yours, why not accept that as Jesus actually was trying to get across? You can only take that which is meaningful to you and leave the rest. Religion is a way for mere humans to attempt to be closer to the divine, it is not meant as a way to repress one another, or pass judgment upon one another, and yet it has been used in that way for thousands of years. Bah!

Here again people are using only a portion of the Bible to make it appear bigoted or out-of-date and irrelevant. Using a single verse to claim that the Bible demonizes the touching of pig skin is just as silly as claiming that since Christ didn't blast homosexuality, it must be a good thing. They fail to recognize that later in the New Testament Peter was given a vision and Paul goes on to state that because of Christ's sacrifice, we are freed from the law. It is not what goes into our bodies that makes us unclean, rather what is "in our hearts", or the state of our relationship with God.

To claim that the Bible advocates slavery implies a short-sighted ethno-centric viewpoint. Slavery in American culture is decried, and rightly so, for our history with African slavery is despicable: Abuse, rape, and other mistreatment, including a severe lack of generosity nor grace have not always been a mark of slavery in other cultures, however. Biblical era slavery was governed by the laws in the Bible to demand a chance for the slave to choose freedom every seven years and decried violence to every human, including those in slavery...these concepts are all found in the Bible. You just have to read more than one verse.

(On a side note, the end of my first paragraph can be applied to homosexuality as well: that it is not the sexual preference of a person that determines their place in Christ's love and acceptance, rather it is the acceptance of Christ as Lord and Savior. I do not agree that it was right to expel that child from the school, but I do agree that it is wrong for the parents to continue to live in a sinful lifestyle. I'm positive that Christ would have loved and ministered those parents were He here today, but would still call their sin: "Sin". Therefore, that is what all Christians should do: Love and minister, speak the truth, and worry about our own sin before we worry too much about this sins of others.)

Jesus didn't say anything about homosexuality while He was here on Earth? You need to look again. Just off the top of my head I remember Jesus talking about Sodom and Gomorrah and using those condemned cities as a warning for us. Why were these towns destroyed? Because of their practice of homosexuality. Do a keyword search in the New Testament for "sodom" and you will see Jesus directly mentioned the town four times as recorded by two of the gospel writers. Even if Jesus didn't mention homosexuality, it still would not mean that God approves of it. Jesus didn't repeat everything that is written elsewhere in the Bible. You really should do at least a cursory, novice investigation before writing such commentary. Your credibility is null, but we can't expect any more from you until you yourself belief in the Lord Jesus Christ and are saved.

It never ceases to amaze me how people can choose to do such evil things and then use religion as an excuse for it.
We've seen planes driven into skyscrapers, coutless bombings, decades of killings between the Catholics and Protestants in Ireland, the Archbishop of Boston covering up child molestation, the slaughters of the Crusades, endless intolerance and bigotry; the history books and the newspapers are filled with the dispicable actions of the devoutly religious. There are certainly different levels of evil in this list of actions and I wouldn't put the expulsion of an innocent girl from a school because of who her mother loves on the same level as killing thousands of innocent people, but the motivation is the same!

To quote John Stossel - "Give me a break!"
I would imagine that JB and Marie believe themselves to be morally superior to the other writers in this column. It's so good to see that real Christians are still holding fast to the bigotry that has fueled the "holy wars" and the inhuman treatment of anyone who doesn't fit into their narrow, closed-minded conception of who and what we are supposed to be.

Isn't it amazing how some people have a direct line to God and a complete understanding of the nature of God. And, naturally, they have the right to judge all others. Funny thing, I seem to remember that Jesus Christ didn't judge and condemn others. I kind of remember a story about Him telling the crowd gathered to stone the adultress, that the one without sin should cast the first stone.
I've heard phrases like "love your neighbor", "feed the hungry", "clothe the naked", etc., but I missed the part that said: ...after you find out who they sleep with and make sure that it is acceptable to you.

I love the Gay Left's innaccurate use of scripture to try to make themselves feel OK with what they are doing. Let me preface this by saying the following: I have lesbian friends that I hang out with and cherish as friends. They invite me to their parties, and they come to my social events. We get along because we can find the common ground.

In response to the misrepresentation of Exodus 21 by Marie, I would like to add some clarity. The word "sell" does not mean to put her into slavery. The connotation is a "dowery", which is what the male paid the family of the female when a marriage occurred. The following verses affirm the meaning, as it addresses how to treat her if he marries her or if his son marries the girl. Notice the injunctions to treat her properly in the following verses. God put this in the Bible to protect women, not to legitimize them as slavery objects.

Organizations have to have some type of standard. This Christian organization had "morality" standards, and it is their right to have those. Even the gay organizations do. Are the gays going to let someone who openly opposes homosexuality organize the next Pride meeting? No. Is that bigotry? No. They have that right too.

As Christians, we believe homosexuality is wrong (hey - along with a BUNCH of other things), and we have a standard for that belief. That doesn't mean gays should be beat up, yelled at, mistreated or made to feel sub-human. At the same time, why on earth would the gay community expect Christians to back off applying that standard in their organizations?

Everyone get a grip.

Regardless of how we view the issue of homosexuality the bottom line is that the parents were in violation of the school policy that they had to be aware of when enrolling the girl.

I have to agree with Yogi on the wonderful points made. We may be free with some degree, but we as humans will never be completely free from the horrendous deeds made to mankind by mankind. That word alone is cynical. Mankind is no longer kind, so there should be a new word for that.

We kill, rape, etc. all in the name of Jesus Christ. I simply believe that He or God are really ashamed by how humans are treating the word of them. We have misinterpreted almost everything they have said or left on the earth. We have no right to use there name for the humanly actions we have taken in their name.

We should all learn to somehow get along, before another worldly flood comes along and wipes all out. But at the same time it would come in handy, so we can start with a clean slate.

More evidence
Christianity Stone Age Religion

Having been raised in the church, with a father that was the pastor, and having studied off and on and developing my own conclusion(s) about the bible , lets be clear about a few things.
1)The people back then did not understand many things , and labeled it as "miracles" or "wonders".
2)The laws laid down then (10 commandments) still applies to this very day, but we add subparts to it, and attach a value of punishment to be exacted (smoking weed=3 years in the pen, or 5 years of probation).
3)No where in the bible does it specifically state anything about same sex relations, unless you want to delve into the abyss written about sodom and gemorrah.
4)KEY POINT:The bible has been translated numerous times to suit mankind school of thinking, there were words in aramic, hebrew, and a host of other language that has no translation in english, so the monks of king james did the next best thing a lazy person could do, use the closest meaning definition to suffice, in order to get a point across.

When reading the bible, remember, back then they had the weed, the liquor, and the spirit (naivete) at the time when they were writing all this stuff, in keeping things all equal and simple, that they did do, and we, along the way, have twisted it to fit our own agenda, when all they wanted to do back then was talk about great things that happened in their time, much like our own times, in history books, not much difference.
But to sit here and watch the nation as a whole, use the bible as a reference, and as an authority that dictates what is allowed in this day and age, is to be of so narrow minded and bigoted, (totally against my personality/religion(?)).
I'd have to turn to the sense of humor side of myself and say "what a bunch of fuckin' idiots if they actually believe that what they are saying is actually the interpretation of the real deal...fuckin' idiotic bigotist"

Let's just say this about the "bible" all these right-wing "christains" use to justify everything that they want to do. No other book in the history of the world has been the "direct" cause of more hatred, bloodshed, and death. What a "wonderful" book to base one's life on.

We're talking about a book that says the first man was made from clay and woman from one of his ribs. Wake the fuck up people, this religion is a joke. Unfortunately just as a gun is most dangerous in the hands of an unstable lunatic, christianity has been put in the hands of weak-minded hatemongering redneck sociopaths. This religion just needs to go away.

Oh, and Paul just put "Man should not lie with man" in the bible because Jesus rammed it up his poop shoot every night and made Paul's ass bleed.

What would Jesus do... That is the contemporary philosophy behind many christans today. right? Well acording to the bible. Jesuses last words during his crusifixion (Mark 15:33) where, "My god, My god, Why hast thou forsaken me? " well what does this imply? does it imply that we should question god, thus question authority. If this is the implication,and i was a christian, I would most likely question my authority as well, and what is the authority of all christians? is it the bible or god, or is the bible the word of god thus we should question the bible and its scribes.

Obviously jesus questioned the jewish athoritarian establishment. Hence why he was crucified. If the christians belive that there is going to be a second comming of christ, you better belive he will question the writings of the new testament and its implications and also question the ministry of the churches who preach hate and bigotry.He would also have to be metaphoricaly crusified by our own society as well, think about it, durring jesuses time the people who belived in christ as the son of god where a minority, and thus today if this next son of god shows up wouldint you think the mass majority of peopel wouldint know he was the son of god, and think he was crazy....

I think what always amazes me the most from Christians is how greatly they demonize the homosexual, and yet, in practice, the homosexual is no less a sinner than any other Christian.  Divorce, adultery, Pre-marital sex, abortion, violence, theft…all sins committed on a daily basis by heterosexual Christians.  Yet homosexuals, who hold themselves to no such “moral obligations” commit these sins less often than their heterosexual counterparts. But homosexuals are more evil why?  I’m not following the logical reasoning, in part, because religion follows none.  I will say how dare all of you Christians out there judge anyone on their sins, for is it not the Christ Himself who said that one shall not judge another unless they themselves are without sin?  Or how about the one that God will judge all in the end, and it is not our place to judge others for their sins?

When will the sinful human learn to not judge others for also committing sin?  Better yet, when will the Christians learn to hold themselves to the same standards that they hold others?  A major problem with religions is that when they beget the same hatred they have reaped, the reapers ask their God why.  When natural disasters destroy thousands of lives, the Christians ask their God why.  When violence takes the life of a loved one, the Christians ask their God why.  What if it is punishment from your God for not following the rules you have agreed to follow?  Oh, He’s merciful, you say?  Then why are you not? 

If anything, I think the sins of the Christian are worse than the sins of the non-Christian.  Why?  The non-Christian has decided not to live by the teachings of the Lord.  The non-Christian has already broken the promise, or never made the promise, to abide by the teachings of God.  The Christian, continues to promise to live by those teachings, but intentionally fails to live by those teachings everyday.  That’s right.  You, the Christian, make the intentional decision to sin everyday, but homosexuals are evil because they broke no promise?  Makes one wonder who is the real villain in this story. 

Interesting how reading all these comments and replying suddenly inspires me to hate the Christians.  It really is too bad the Christians have not suffered as much as they have caused others suffering, for maybe they might understand a little.  Maybe if the Christians learned to love more, as they are supposed to, the world would be a better place. Maybe the problems of the world really are a punishment from God…a punishment to those who disobey Him more than anyone else, the Christians.

People need to go back and look at the scripture on Sodom and Gomorrah again. It was not, as many people wish to claim, destroyed because anyone may/may not have been homosexual. The men were planning to force the visitors to do something against their will. It was destroyed because it was full of prostitutes and rapists.

Why is it that people can eliminate other "gods" and religions as false, but then can't apply the logic of this elimination to their own beliefs? How can one not believe in Zeus, but believe in a "Holy Trinity" that was entirely the creation of man?

How can people hear that 13 men and a prostitute hung around each other, but nothing sexual happened?

Why is it that there are wealthy evangelists when it is supposed to be easier to pass through the eye of a needle than have a rich man enter into heaven?

The fact is, all of these different religions and "spiritual" beliefs are attempts made by our ancestors to explain the sometimes whimsical nature of life. For example: An earthquake happened as punishment, and your family died because they were not pure of heart. It's all made up folks! Simply attempts to deal with our impermanent nature. What better way to do so than to arrogantly believe that the universe revolves around us; that life exists only because it was made for humans. I hope that we are one day able to wake up from this absurd notion, because it has single handedly brought us to the point of self-extermination.

Thank you one and all!!! what a great post!!! Just proves know one no's anything!!!
We are all lost. Just pray that the answer will be provided to us unpon our departure from this wounderful trip call life.

I love you all!!!

WhimsicalSquirrel makes an interesting point...if the son of Christ was born as a minority before, will he not once more? LOL I bet he'll come back as an Obese Ethnic Lesbian, the height of American minority (overweight, non-white, homosexual, woman), and topple this ridiculous stranglehold the Christians have over the Western world. I can't await Her return!

Are we really so afraid of thinking for ourselves that we have to rely on a "book" to think for us? I fully agree with TRUTH. One person's interpretation of a book shouldn't give him credence to think he's better or more 'holy' than another. What a joke! Why are all these Christians insisting on focusing on what other people do in there bedrooms anyways? Doesn't it seem kinda' odd that these people are so preoccupied with how other's choose to sexually express themselves? Shouldn't they be focusing on spreading LOVE? Gay and Lesbian people aren't trying to force their 'way' on the Christians, why do the Christians want so badly for their way to be the 'right' way. There's no 'right' way people!! We're all humans. The Christian cause is a LOST cause! EXTRA, EXTRA, read all about it!! Sorry to break the news to you folks but you're not going to make a difference in this area, you're only going to continue to piss people off and make them hate you and the whole idea of Christianity even more. If you want to make a real difference you should be focusing on the perverted society of pedophiles. That’s what I call a problem.

Leviticus 18:22 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.' Seems pretty simple to me.

Jesus' last words were not "My god, My god, Why hast thou forsaken me?" They were "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." Luke 23:46

Setting it straight

Where in the bible does it say to punish a child for the sins of her parents? Because really that is what the school is doing. What has the child done that is so wrong? Is she not only obeying the commandment of honouring her parents? Where in the Bible does is say this sin will get you banned from a community of a people whose main tenent is to forgive but other sins won't?

Well obviously setting it straight used another version of the bible than i did. Thus proving that the bible is arbitrary and nothing but a semantical game of words....

Has anyone ever thought of why christianity never really got a hold of the society it suposedly origionated in? Could it be linguistics and the fact that the new testament was wretten in greek and not in a semitic language such as hebrew or arabic. look at the linguistic back ground of the supposedly holly land, a large majority are arabic thus speak arabic, and thus worship a religion who uses arabic text(islam), and the other submajority are jewish, and thus speak contemporary hebrew. now think how the new testament spread through out the west, could it be that the reason why the "word" spread through the west was because of the fact it was writen in a western language. could jesus be nothing but a product of greek mythology?

And this is why Christianity is based on poor translation. You want to pass around "bible fact" people, learn to read the original GREEK first.

1:24 Therefore God gave them over (3SAAI) in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored (PPN) among them.


Greek: Dio paredoken (3SAAI) autous o theos en tais epithumiais ton kardion auton eis akatharsian tou atimazesthai (PPN) ta somata auton en autois,


Amplified: Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their [own] hearts to sexual impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves [abandoning them to the degrading power of sin],


Barclay: So then God abandoned them to uncleanness in their hearts, passionate desires for pleasure, desires which made them dishonor their bodies among themselves


NCV: Because they did these things, God left them and let them go their sinful way, wanting only to do evil. As a result, they became full of sexual sin, using their bodies wrongly with each other.


NLT: So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies.


Phillips: They gave up God: and therefore God gave them up - to be the playthings of their own foul desires in dishonoring their own bodies.


Wuest: On which account God delivered them over in the passionate cravings of their hearts to bestial profligacy which had for its purpose the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves;


Young's Literal: Wherefore also God did give them up, in the desires of their hearts, to uncleanness, to dishonour their bodies among themselves;

EXPLAIN HOW THE AMPLIFIED SAYS ANYTHING ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY AT ALL!

It was added by the church because the priesthood was taking part in sexual orgies in the temples. It's about temple prostitution, NOT about homosexuality at all.

Gosh I hate people who spout gibberish as the "word of God". *sigh* You think your NIV is the word of God? And if you are not a full blown bible scholar, you have NO RIGHT spouting what your sunday pastor told you which you may have caught through half dazed boredom. Shame!

I suppose this may throw a lot of the Christian Responders into a bit of a frenzy but, consider this; if we're talking reality, then let's look at history for a sec. Isn't it strange how many of the Ancient Democratic Greek morals happen to match perfectly with many Christian morals, especially with the treatment of women and slaves, work, and the relationship of religion in government? Come on Christians, you don't actually think Jesus just made up all these rules when they had been around nearly 500 years before his birth, (if he did in fact exist, there have been theories suggesting Jesus is the compilation of many men floating around the Middle East during the same time all named Jesus who all claimed to be the Messiah). What sucks about the Bible is that it is probably one of the most inconsistent books ever written where readers and faithful followers feel they can find loop holes to cancel one idea out with another. Plus you ignore all historical evidence that suggests what the Bible may have been a response to when it was written. It is an archaic book with archaic ideals. Besides, I guarantee you that if homosexuality somehow benefitted a major corporation, then Republicans would be forced to look at it differently no matter how many Christians opposed it. Remember Christians, when they stop profiting from your votes, it will be like the reenactment of Judas' denial of Christ all over again.

Religion is the root of all evil.

Maybe christians who argue that homosexual acts are wrong should take a page out of their own Intelligent Design bullcrap and admit that God created them and their is no other explaination. So stop smearing the work of God.

SettingItStraight,

The same book in which that ONE quote comes from, Leviticus, is also one of the two books (Exodus being the other) that all of those silly and heartless laws I mentioned in my previous post come from. So, yes, it is simple: If you use that Biblical quote to say that homosexuality is bad, then you also believe that everything in the aforementioned post is right.

And, at bookbitch's question concerning "Where in the Bible does it say to punish a child for the sins of her parents?"
Dueteronomy 23:2 (TEV)-- "No one born out of wedlock or any descendant of such a person, even in the tenth generation, may be included among the Lord's people."
Now, it says nothing about homosexuality, but it does, however, condone punishing the child for the fault of the parents. Just another one of those old testament passages briefly mentioned in my previous post that seem to be quite out-of-date. However, as long as people continue using the Old Testament to fuel their arguments against homosexuality or other things, I will continue to post quotations from D-23:2 and others to prove how idiotic the OT can be and how, if they use it to support themselves, they must be using it to support everything else as well.

And up above at Dan,
I used one verse to say that touching the skin of a dead pig is bad, because people continuously use one verse from the Old Testament, Leviticus 18:22 to condemn homosexuality. I was merely proving my point about the pointlessness of using the Bible to support any claims against homosexuality.

I am gay. I enjoy life. I see the faults in gay lifestyle, but we're still humans. It ~is~ funny how people can get divorced and still be in god's good graces. We still deserve rights. God made all of us, gay/straight/chinese/hindu whatever in ~his image~. If he didn't want us to exist, wouldn't he have taken care of us already? How can people say that "god loves everyone" and then add the adendum "except homosexuals"? That doesn't make sense! God. Loves. Everyone.
Deal with it, no adendums, no added fluff, no ifs, ands or buts.




We all bleed the same color blood, which is red, not black like most people tell me.

If the people of Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because they were homosexual, why wasn't the entire government and country of Greece destroyed in about 480 BCE?

I’m so glad my parents sent me to a private Christian school to “cure me of my homosexual disease”. Indirectly they armed me for the battle that would by my life. Constantly defending what I do inside my monogamous relationship behind closed doors. Luckily I learned at an early age to just turn the other cheek because bigotry is led by ignorance. Jesus asked his followers to show others his love not throw the book at them. How is it you expect to “redeem” us of our “sin” when you aren’t without sin? It’s only through Jesus I will be received into the kingdom of heaven. Do you really expect to “save” my people as a whole when you’ve already condemned them to hell?

Luke 6- 27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you, 28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you. 29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also. 30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.

Matthew 5- But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. 41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. 43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Both of the above passages by Luke and Matthew taught me to ignore your ignorance and bigotry. The best metaphor I can offer for homosexuality is: If I grew up in an extremely racist white family and “decided” at the age of 16 to be black. It wasn’t a choice, just as you didn’t choose to be straight. Ironically it’s only straight people who say it’s a choice.

I do agree that these women haven’t a legal leg to stand on in this case. Because it’s a private school they get to “pick and choose” who they allow to attend. But why would people claiming to follow Jesus exclude 14 yr old Shay? Is Shay gay? WWJD? Gay or straight Jesus would want that little girl to know him.

Matthew 7- 1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Would it be so far fetched to believe Matthew is warning you of the judgment you have to come? That you will be judged in heaven with the same eye you judged people with on earth? The more intolerant you are of what you view as sins of the flesh the less intolerant God will be when he judges you in heaven.

There’s too much hate in this world for Christians to be selecting who can/cannot love. Jesus is love and God created everything. So would the same loving forgiving God send me to hell for loving another one of his beloved creatures?

I pray daily for your deliverance from this bigotry. I read this passage from Jeremiah daily but keep in mind while doing so in my eyes you are the wicked and terrible he speaks of.

Jeremiah 15- 15 O LORD, thou knowest: remember me, and visit me, and revenge me of my persecutors; take me not away in thy longsuffering: know that for thy sake I have suffered rebuke. 16 Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. 17 I sat not in the assembly of the mockers, nor rejoiced; I sat alone because of thy hand: for thou hast filled me with indignation. 18 Why is my pain perpetual, and my wound incurable, which refuseth to be healed? wilt thou be altogether unto me as a liar, and as waters that fail? 19 Therefore thus saith the LORD, If thou return, then will I bring thee again, and thou shalt stand before me: and if thou take forth the precious from the vile, thou shalt be as my mouth: let them return unto thee; but return not thou unto them. 20 And I will make thee unto this people a fenced brasen wall: and they shall fight against thee, but they shall not prevail against thee: for I am with thee to save thee and to deliver thee, saith the LORD. 21 And I will deliver thee out of the hand of the wicked, and I will redeem thee out of the hand of the terrible.

Jesus didn't mention anything about necrophilia or bestiality. So, according to you, that means it is just fine. To the Plummer article, I just laugh when your group threatens to take away the Church's tax exemption. Simple fact on that, freedom of speech cuts both ways and the threats will not silence Christians. It is sheer hypocricy on your part to even raise the separation of Church and State in speaking about a private Christian School, receiving no federal funds, on the one hand and advocating that the government intrude itself into a church matter. As another poster pointed out, the Bible is clear on the prohibition against both male and female homosexuality. We on the right are hard at work to uphold marriage between one man and one woman and getting judges appointed(Judge Roberts is just one of the many we will see seated on the federal bench) that uphold moral values. We're being met with success in all of our efforts.

The real reason why the evangelical and other churches condem homosexuals is because they are a minority. Now acording to the bible to divoce and remary is adultry (Mark 10:11) and to stay married to the second partner would logicaly be continuous adultry thus a continuous sin. But the church does not condem remarrying, actualy the chuch remarries people all the time. so why does the church not condem these adulters? Adultry is also an abomination to god as well as homosexuality acording to the bible, right.

well obviously the chuch does not discontinue this practice, because if the church did not remarry people, the people who want to remarry would become angry and discontinue going to church,and if these people do not go to church, the church looses MONEY! imagin if the church did not remarry people, the church would loose a great majority of people because so manny people get divorced, its like 60% of people who marry get a divorce, and i asume many of those people will remarry.It,s the economics that control the church, not god .... $$$=GOD

The church obviously likes to beat up on the little people, just like a school yard bully. its the same psycology only in a collective way, the church is big and strong and has a ego trip but it also has problems within it's self. and these problems make the church the way it is.

Let me first clear something up, I hate religion. There, now the true xcians can stop reading and start sending the xian hate mail.
How about we stop calling it religion. Let's call it what it really is, philosophy. That way we can separate the wheat from chaff (hey I went to a xian high school!). Remove the ghouls and goblins and boogie men and stars lighting up over birthing mangers, and walking on water and burning bushes and all the other "supernatural events". And please, as was stated paritally in an earlier post, quick thinking of all the "events" in the bible as somehow xian. They're not. The majority of ridiculous behaviors that you pretend are xian are just hijacked from other previous religions.
Ok, calling it philosophy, removing supernatural stuff, and what's left? A fairly good philosophy of life. You know, loving everyone, caring about the poor, not judging people. So that's it. Stop there. Use those positive (ahhh..the tough part...use only those positives) to guide your, I repeat your, lifestyle choices.
Of course, having the freedom of choice (sorry religious right...free will) means that you can use your philosophy to exclude people that you don't agree with from some little group that you make. Just as a football team can exclude someone who doesn't measure up physically. So as a rule, I don't disagree that they can kick the little girl out of their school. They can do any retarded thing they want there...including not teaching evolution. Just don't expect the rest of us to think very highly of that decision.
But outwordly, how 'bout a little more of something called, tolerance. Doesn't mean that you like the thing that's happening, but you tolerate it because someone else does. And don't start talking to me about beastiality and other such moronic things cause I'll tear you a new one with my sword of righteouness called science.
Anyway, my guess is, jesus was a fairly cool guy (or guys). Layed back easy going, obviously born at a time when there wasn't too much science and a lot of ignorance, but that's progress. Start with something decent (and simple) and build on it. I put him in league with (but not above) Martin Luther King, Ghandi et. al. All the great philosphers who have pushed us to be more human, and humane, more tolerant and understanding.
And for all you intolerant, ignorant, bigoted a-holes out there, WWJD?...probably say hey, lets grab a brew and and find some common ground. Hey, he was a good guy (or guys), I'd probably just try and kick the crap out of you.

What I am finding amazing as I read these posts is the hypocrisy I find, not from the Christians, but from those opposed to Christianity. Those who say "we should not judge people for their beliefs" sure are judging those who don't share their beliefs on homosexuality, and certainly aren't acting out of love and respect for those who share a different opinion about homosexuality. Some of these posts I have read talk about "hating" Christians, and seem really angry! In fact, you are just as bad if not worse than those you are condenming. Why is that? Do you think that your "enlightened worldview" is somehow "better" than my "archaic view"? Seems a little self righteous if you ask me. I have read people talk about stupid the Bible is, how crazy Christians are etc. however I don't and never will call you stupid for your beliefs, which in my mind are as equally outlandish. Am I supposed to believe that my great great great ancestors are hairy old apes? Am I supposed to believe that Jesus never exisisted as one previous post suggests, even though a majority of secular historians say he did? Am I to believe that many inteligent and smart people, were duped? Oxford scholars like Tolkien and Lewis were stupid for their beliefs?!? Those are pretty outlandish views in my OPINION, but we are all entitled to our OPINIONS. What is your worldview: "We will not judge unless you don't share our beliefs?" I don't understand it. I am not condemning your beliefs, why condemn mine? Secondly, I cannot see how expelling a child from school because her parents clearly violated the school's policy, is an act of judgement. We are talking about a PRIVATE school, and as such a PRIVATE school has the right to determine who it wants to admit and who it doesn't want to admit. The fact remains that these two women knowingly went against the stated policy of the school, and now we are supposed to feel like they are somehow being abused? Like their rights were somehow violated? Poor innocent little lesbians, who just wanted to give their daughter an education-get over it! They knew what they were doing, they violated the school policy and for what reason? They could have sent her to another school that shared their beliefs on homosexuality, instead they tried to force their worldwiew on the school. Were is the justice in all of this? If anything I feel badly for the school and the school officials who are now being called all sorts of names, and are now thrust into the limelight they didn't want to be in, all because some lesbians wanted to prove a point and try and make the school look bad.

religion breeds hatred and violence. this simple statement gets proven every day.

If these posts are to debate religion, God, or Christianity, please ignore this post. This post is for those who believe in the Bible, are Christians, and think that homosexuality is not a sin.
God loves EVERYONE. He hates sin. He sent His Son to die for the sins of EVERYONE, because of His love for us. Jesus knew this; which is why He spent so much time with people who were caught in sinful lifestyles. He loved them, and wanted them to turn from their sins (whether homosexual or heterosexual in nature). A true christian realizes that he or she is a sinner, and they have been saved by faith that Jesus died for their sins so that we would not be punished.

In the beginning He created us male and female. God's smart, and if He had wanted us to live in homosexual relationships He would have CREATED us with the ability to procreate without a member of the opposite sex. If homosexuality can't exist without heterosexuality (excluding technical advances), then I'd have to say that God did not intend it any more than He intended us to have sex with trees.

If im conditioned to belive something is right, but its rong, is it still right. if everyone say's the earth is the center of the universe would they still be right, even if their wrong.whos right and who's wrong. Its arbitrary, that is why im agnostic, i do not claim to know. i do not know what happens after death. Dead people do not speak. Dead people dont tell what its like in hell or heven. What happens after death is unconciveable, then as far as i know nothingness is inconcevable, so mabee what happens after death is nothing. mabe we are afraid of nothing and that is why religion began to sooth the people from the idea of nothing...

Corinthians 1:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the spirit of God dwellith in you....

Written by one of Christs own fags Paul.
Paul did not say only heterosexuals are the temple of God. I believe he refered to all of mankind as having the spirit of God dwelling inside of them. He didn't exclude lesbians in that statement.
Policies of Ontario Christian school are well known in the inland empire community as being one of the works of the "good ole christians boys club". Archaic, self serving, hypocritical like most/all of the christian "teachings".
Nothing more than fanatical freaks like those that bomb towers and behead folks.

Christians are hypocrits and liars. The lot of them.

I’m an atheist, but a profoundly religious one.
I haven’t seen anything so far that will make me believe that there’s a god, or that there are gods, or that Jesus Christ was anything more than a man who had profound vision and was filled empathy and love for his fellows.
That said, I don’t believe that any loving, mutually respectful relationship between two, three or ninety consenting individuals of any sex, race, or creed is detrimental to the fabric of the society in which we live.
Society is my god. My commandments are simply to live in harmony with people who also wish to live in harmony, and to protect myself and those I love from those that would do us harm. Homosexuals as a group have never harmed anyone. What is more amoral about what a homosexual does in the bedroom than what your average heterosexuals are up to? Are we to shun everyone who has at one point participated in oral sex? Anal sex? What *is* sodomy? And more importantly, what difference does it make what takes place between consenting individuals of sound mind behind closed doors?
Driving up a lane that is ending and then cutting people off who are waiting in traffic is a much worse sin than homosexuality, if you think about it. It’s flagrantly putting your own self importance ahead of the others on the roadway. It causes resentment and possibly road rage. It increases the possibility of injury to the offender, as well as the person being cut off and the other uninvolved motorists. It causes only further delay and more traffic.
Homosexuals, despite misguided arguments to the contrary, lead much the same lives as heterosexuals. Dating and falling in love is the same for a homosexual as it is for heterosexuals. When they adopt children, they do not sexually abuse them more than your average heterosexual couple would. There is no more violence than in a “normal” home. However, I don’t imagine homosexual couples threaten their children with being disowned should the child grow up to be heterosexual. I seriously doubt any effort is made to ‘cure’ the child of heterosexuality.
It might be that heterosexuality is just an offshoot of an overcrowded society; Nature’s little way of telling us to slow down and stop reproducing for a while. Experiments have been performed on rats that show overpopulation leads to an increase in the number of homosexual rats. (Yes, homosexual rats. Do you believe the rats “chose” to be homosexual?)
So, homosexuality happens. It’s a fact of life, such as people being born with blue eyes, or brown skin. It will not go away simply because misguided and bigoted heterosexuals wish it to. Love thy neighbor. I pray to my god in my every interaction with others. The rest of the world would be a more tolerant and loving place if it attempted to do the same.

If policies of the school are so well known then why would someone who doesn't share those views want to send their child to such a school? You have just proven my earlier point that stated that these women had an alterior motive, and that is to force their views on those who don't agree with them. I must also say that grouping all Christians together with those who bomb towers makes about us much sense me grouping all of the liberals with those are who pedophiles, crooks and the like. I keep reading that "religion breeds hatred" etc, but so far, the only hatred I see is coming from those who AREN'T religious...makes me wonder why you are all such unhappy people.

I really doubt the "Poor innocent little lesbians" were trying to FORCE anything on anyone. Did it ever cross your mind that the "Poor innocent little lesbians" wanted their daughter to be in a Christian school for the same reasons the poor innocent little straight people do? Technically smoking is a sin but I’m sure there are parents who smoke there, in today’s world there may even be a few students. Just because people are gay doesn't mean they can't love Jesus just as much as straight people. Just like people who smoke can. Obviously the subject isn’t the center of the religion or there wouldn’t be a doubt as to how God feels about homosexuality it’d have been the 11th commandment. Granted it's harder for homosexuals to get to know God with so many "Christians" telling them things like "Jesus doesn't hear your prayers because you're gay" OR "It doesn't matter how much you try you're still going to hell". That's the bigotry these people are talking about. The fact that Jesus wants his followers to show love not exclusion. Just because they’re gay doesn’t mean they can’t be Christians, who want their child to have a Christ centered education. I will say again that the women have no legal leg to stand on because they did sign the document agreeing to uphold the schools view of Christian morals and standards but what about the straight divorcees at the school? I also don't think that you're taking into consideration that if they signed the agreement to uphold the Christian morals etc they wouldn't be picketing the school for gay rights. They kept it in the closet so Shay could go to school there or she’d have been kicked out a long time ago. The only point being made of this is that if Christians were acting as Jesus asked them to they wouldn't have expelled her for that reason they would have embraced the opportunity to minister to her what is righteous and holy since she wasn't going to learn it from her “wicked lesbian mothers”. Wouldn't that be a chance to "save one of the lost sheep" since in their opinion homosexuality is wrong? I hardly think these 2 women are gay rights activist. Sounds to me like they're just 2 moms who've been together for 22 years and have 3 kids and wanted God to have a hand on Shay’s education.

Just because you don't procreate doesn't mean you're going to hell. What about women who choose not to, or men with low sperm counts? Why is it that the straight world can't just see homosexuals as people? They get compared to people who "sleep with trees", commit acts of bestiality and necrophilia, or child molesters when in all actuality 99% of all sexual offenders are straight. When people find out someone's gay they immediately only see what goes on in their bedroom. They're no longer Jane Doe who has a profession or a personality. How would you like it if people looked at you and all they saw was what their imagination creates of you behind closed doors? Christians have to right to choose to believe it's wrong or right just like gay people do. The bigotry comes into play when they claim to be Christian yet don't act the part. I think if Jesus could he would embrace her 2 mothers for wanting their child to have an education that included him. She wouldn't get that at a public school where she'd learn about evolution.

my comment regarding procreation was not to imply that people who don't procreate go to hell. Let's look at it from an evolutionary standpoint: homosexual people have been around as long as heterosexual people or very close; If they were born that way, then one would think that they would have evolved a way to make babies. That is the nature of evolution. I fail to see how you can compare a horny rat with limited sexual options to a human being that desires an intimate relationship with a member of the same sex. that does not sound like a sensitive view point.

my reference to "sleeping with trees" was not to compare a gay person with someone who actually sleeps with trees, but to say that we all have the right to sleep with whomever or whatever we want. God gave us the right to make our own choices in life. we would be robots otherwise. in a godless society, society dictates what is right and wrong. our society is slowly changing its view on the "rightness" of homosexuality. that doesn't mean God has changed His. do i think these to mom's are evil, wicked people? the answer is probably not. i would call some guy who rapes another guy in prison evil and wicked, just the same as i would call a guy who rapes a woman evil and wicked. from the sounds of it, i would say that these women are no worse than someone (not excluding myself) who lies, lusts after another person, cheats, or flips someone off for cutting in front of them in traffic. bear in mind these are examples of "sins" which are common in our society (christian or not, gay or not)and just the tip of the ice berg.

the women violated school policy end of story there. they could have had a policy which states that "neither parent can sit on the couch and watch tv" it is their right. frankly, i wouldn't want to or try to send my daughter to a school which had a policy against my way of life. that would be like me trying to send my kid to a school with a policy against fat dumb guys--i wouldn't do it to myself or my kid.

the real issue is whether or not a person is born gay or chooses that lifestyle whether consciously or subconsciously...

Why is it that it's only straight people who say it's a choice? None of you can answer when you chose to be straight. Gay people aren't saying it's a choice. It's like a man trying to describe menstrual cramps. He wouldn't know because he doesn't have them just as straight people wouldn't know because they aren't gay.

Like I said before it'd be like being born white into a neo-Nazi skinhead family and "choosing" to be black. Today's world is hard enough to get by in without choosing to have people hate you when they don't even know you.

The women wanted Shay to have a Christ centered education. All Christian schools make you sign a waver, I've had to sign one as a student at one. I agree the violated it and the school has a right to expel Shay. But they violated it because if they didn't sign it she couldn't attend. Ever consider there wasn't another option? It was either sign the waver and let Jesus be a part or don't and let her learn about evolution at a school where they aren't even allowed to pray. The point being that homosexuality isn't the center of what Jesus was telling us. Just because you attend a church doesn't mean you take everything said in the sermon and apply it to your own life smoking, premarital sex, adultery, taking the lord's name in vain. A sin is a sin, no one sin is greater than another. If people can have premarital sex and still be considered Christians why can't gay people? And why can't those same people want their child to attend a school where Jesus would be included? I know it was in school policy, but I don't blame them. I would violate the same policy if necessary for my child to have Jesus included in his/her curriculum.

Plummer,

We need to remember that Jesus didn't write the gospels or any portion of the New Testament. They were written by Apostles such as John and Matthew or other disciples who traveled with Apostles which is the case of Mark and Luke. Mark and Luke traveled with the Apostles Peter and Paul. Mark and Luke were not eyewittness's of Jesus but rather wrote down what they heard Peter and Paul preach about Jesus. The gospels are no more or less authoritive than the rest of the New Testament. Another way to say this is that the letters of Paul, Peter, James, John, etc are just as authoritive as the Gospels because they have the same source; the Apostles and other eyewittness's.

Everyone here is making some excellent points and I really do mean that! I am enjoying reading these posts as they give me something to think about and I hope that my responses are not offensive to any of you. I realize that sometimes I get agitated when trying to express my views and I may come across as offensive to some of you. The one thing that keeps striking me though is this notion that ALL Christians are bigots. Granted there are many many horrible people who do horrible things in the name of God, but not all of us are like that. I personally believe homosexuality is wrong, you may not agree with that and that is ok. HOWEVER just because i believe it is wrong does not mean that I am going to go out and start "gay bashing" or in some other way become physically or emotionally violent against homosexuals. THere are many many Christians that don't share the views represented on TV and by the liberal media- the view that Christians think "God hates fags!" is not a view that i share. In fact with the millions of Christians in the world today, I believe that it is a minority of Christians who sprouting such hateful messages. I wish that you all could see the work that the Christians do in my community at the AID's clinics. I myself am in a Bible study with several straight, gay and lesbian men and women. My goal and motive is not to "Cure" them of their gayness but rather it is to show them the love of Christ. If they see Christ's love and then ON THEIR OWN ACCORD chose to change their ways, great, but if not I don't care. My goal is to show them the love Christ and then let them make their own conclusions about what is right and wrong. Some may come to agree with my views on homosexuality while others may not. Again, I don't care. I just want everyone to experience the joy that I have as being a Christian and clear up some of the confusion about Christianity that seems to be circulating. Please understand that what you see in the media is not representative of what ALL Christians believe. Yes there are some foul Christians in the world, just like there are some foul atheists, homosexuals, Muslims etc. but we are not ALL bad people. This does not mean to say that we believe that a homosexual lifestyle is postive but it means that regardless we try hard to follow Christ's example of Hate sin, love the sinner.

I will accept the School's decision as being fair, on one condition: that they also expel any children who have a parent who was divorced and re-married; that they expel any children with only one unmarried parent; that they make all parents fill out documents swearing under penalty of perjury that they have not committed adultery; and that they investigate the homes of all parents to check if any of them are in possession of contraceptives of any kind.

Only then will I feel that the School is not being hypocritical and unChristian. But, as that is extremely unlikely, I will have to assume that they are just being discriminatory out of an irrational homophobia and needlessly punishing a child.

I do hope that any of you out there that vote for those that agree with your religious (or non religous ) views will betray you at the drop of a hat if they think they ccan have more power serving the other side.

I hope all of you are not trying to convince anyone that your views are correct. We all believe that our views are correct. i grew up in a religious environment and thought "there has to be a better way, a more sane way" the fact that i viewed my upbringing as "incorrect" shows that i believed MY own views were correct.

I have to agree that Religion (the institution) is one of the most destructive things the human race has ever concieved. When we are offended by other people's actions (that does not effect us) we should wonder why we are offended, and address that issue within ourselves. We should not justtry to stamp out that offence. Whatever inadequacy we posess that was so offended is still there, it's just not being agitated.

If you feel your marriage is cheapened or dimininished by same sex marriages, then you must realize that the weakness in YOUR marriage is within YOUR mind. My marriage is not enhanced by yours (i don't know any of you) nor is my marriage hurt by yours or the gay couple that decides to be married in Vermont. I love my spouse regardless of your marital status.

The fact that this thread is so long shows how much effort and thought people put in the idea of homosexuals. there are so many more important things to consider like how is each political side trying to divide us so that we relinquish power unto them. As long as we are divided and at each other's throats, then the politicians are in control. They are the puppeteers.

It's up to us to change things.

Why is it that it's only straight people who say it's a choice? None of you can answer when you chose to be straight. Gay people aren't saying it's a choice. It's like a man trying to describe menstrual cramps. He wouldn't know because he doesn't have them just as straight people wouldn't know because they aren't gay.

Like I said before it'd be like being born white into a neo-Nazi skinhead family and "choosing" to be black. Today's world is hard enough to get by in without choosing to have people hate you when they don't even know you.

The women wanted Shay to have a Christ centered education. All Christian schools make you sign a waver, I've had to sign one as a student at one. I agree the violated it and the school has a right to expel Shay. But they violated it because if they didn't sign it she couldn't attend. Ever consider there wasn't another option? It was either sign the waver and let Jesus be a part or don't and let her learn about evolution at a school where they aren't even allowed to pray. The point being that homosexuality isn't the center of what Jesus was telling us. Just because you attend a church doesn't mean you take everything said in the sermon and apply it to your own life smoking, premarital sex, adultery, taking the lord's name in vain. A sin is a sin, no one sin is greater than another. If people can have premarital sex and still be considered Christians why can't gay people? And why can't those same people want their child to attend a school where Jesus would be included? I know it was in school policy, but I don't blame them. I would violate the same policy if necessary for my child to have Jesus included in his/her curriculum.

To Better to be thought ignorant than to speak and confirm it

I think you’re right-on with your statement:

“A sin is a sin, no one sin is greater than another. If people can have premarital sex and still be considered Christians why can't gay people?”

It certainly makes sense that ‘Christians’ who defend their right to have heterosexual relationships outside of marriage do not have a leg to stand on when pointing at homosexual relationships.

Jesus only affirmed one kind of sexual relationship, male with female, sanctioned by marriage. When you advocate anything outside of that as being normative you are not following Jesus’ teaching; hence you’re not a follower of Jesus.

Now, can we make a mistake, succumb to lust and fall into sin? Yes!! But should we advocate sin as not-sin? No! We repent, ask forgiveness, and flee from temptations. This goes for the heterosexual and the homosexual.

Jesus didn't affirm that the earth is round but you believe that. What about transgender people? It's been proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that in transgender people the body developes as one sex whereas the brain (and hormones) develope as another. Are those people sinners too?

Dr. Joan Roughgarden, a biologist at Stanford University with a Ph.D. from Harvard, states that more than 300 vertebrate species have been found to practice homosexuality. And while one gene may not be responsible for this variant, Italian researcher Andrea Camperio-Ciani of the University of Padua notes that research findings point to there being more than one "gay gene," and that the genetic factors linked to homosexuality in men are also linked to increased fertility in women.

It took the Catholic Church 359 years to admit that they were wrong when they accused Galileo of heresy and condemned him to death, unless he recanted that the earth rotates around the sun. Since he wanted to live, he was forced to deny the truth and agree with the Church that the sun rotates around the earth, but he was still placed under house arrest until his death.

Mahatma Ghandi, the renowned leader of the people of India, in seeking to overthrow British colonial rule of his native land, was an avid reader. Although a Hindu, in his quest for freedom, he read the four Christian Gospels. He wanted to know more about Jesus of Nazareth. In his reading of the Gospels, Ghandi was impressed with this man whom Christians worship and follow. Where could he find out more about this Jesus whom Christians refer to as "the Christ - the Messiah?" One Sunday morning Ghandi decided that he would visit one of the Christian churches in Calcutta. Upon seeking entrance to the church sanctuary, he was stopped at the door by the ushers. The ushers told him that he was not welcome, nor would he be permitted to attend this particular church as it was for 'high caste' Indians and 'whites' only. He was neither 'high caste', nor was he British. Because of the rejection by this church, 'the Mahatma' turned his back on Christianity. With this act, Ghandi rejected the Christian faith, never again to consider the claims of Christ! He was 'turned-off' by the sin of segregation that was practiced by the church. Ghandi later declared, "I'd be a Christian if it were not for the Christians!" We will never know the difference it would have made had Ghandi been welcomed by Christians, and in turn had he come into a personal relationship with Christ as his Savior and Lord. What an impact Christianity could have had on India, a land that has been held in the clutches and bondage of a heathen religion (Hinduism) for centuries.

It is also ironic that the radical religious right can resurrect from the Bible NO EXAMPLE of the archetypal "traditional marriage" they so fervently propagandize. The first child of Abraham - cultural progenitor of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam - was borne by his wife's handmaiden, Hagar (Genesis 16). And didn't King Solomon reportedly have a thousand wives and concubines (1 Kings 11:1-3)? There is no consistent, comprehensive Biblical model of heterosexual marriage - it simply doesn't exist.

I would rather be rejected by people for what I am, than be accepted by people for what I am not.

How is it that The King James bible becomes the true bible. It is The kings version of the bible as he wanted it to be, ignoring the previous version. If a bible can be rewritten by the king so as to dictate his interpretation of the previous bible which was considered the true bible but now is obsolete why would anyone discard their previous beliefs for the new version. The Old testimaent told of incidents of murder, incest, beswtiality,homosexuality,and mass execution by an atomic type blast, killing untold numbers of people,turning a person into a salt statue for looking back,the drouning of an entire population of the world except for a chosen family.the enticement to murder ones own son. a son who murdered his own broter out of jealousy. All of this is ignored in the king james bible. The history of religion is filled with mad men who used the threat of being damned to hell by god in order to entice men to go on crusades of murder, pillage and commit atrosities against other humans including children who were not sutable as slaves. Things haven't changed much when a country can still go to war because God has chosen an idiot as his surrogate ruler of a country.

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