The US federal government should have three budget items:

Military
Interstate commerce regulation
Diplomacy

In other news, my taxes haven't been cut or even slashed.. Damn!

Stephen -- Did you go to public school? If you did, you were the recipient of government funding. Every time you take a breath, you benefit from government programs. Do you feel confident that when you're robbed, you can rely on the police to help? If so, you REQUIRE the assistance of the government.

Tell me, sir. How do you expect these and many other institutions to function without government funding? How do you expect capitalism to function in a nation of 300 million without harming those millions? Do you honestly believe that industry would self-regulate in order to prevent environmental damage?

Stephen,

Do you drive on interstate highways?

Have you ever visited Yellowstone or any national park?

Have you been to the Smithsonian or made use of the Library of Congress?

Have you ever sent a letter with a stamp on it?

PLEASE, I beseech you, THINK.

Citizen Lactar = Politics of Hate

Lactar I'm sorry you're lost but I really couldn't tell you how to get to Rush's sight. Take a good look at Mexico, that is the democracy your nation building President and his toady cabinet are building here. Small powerful elite and massive powerless peasant class, no safety net. Stripping natives of education will remove the one chance they get at autonomy unless you count casinos, and that will be the next thing you dicks take from them. As for farmers, never understood why they went to the dark side. We'll see much longer they buy the values song and dance. If you get past the second coming of Jesus act and look at the record of the boy wonder, the only thing he ever succeeded at was a tax-payer financed sports stadium. Mmmm, Mmm, we love our corporate welfare!

Police are local and state issues. I'll not be calling the FBI over a stolen stereo. (Also, I have no faith in the historians known as the police to A.) Protect me from a crime in progress B.) Recover my property if stolen or C.) Catch whoever took it. Sorry, facts of life. Even though I understand the importance of having them there, its a STATE and LOCAL issue, NOT a federal one. You geniuses cant seem to figure out that just because the FEDERAL government doesnt do something, doesnt mean it cant/wont/shouldnt get done. Was I unclear about the "US federal" government?

My shitty public school was mostly a product of LOCAL property taxes, and state funding. Very few federal dollars went into it, and I guarentee you, since it was DuPage County, that our residents were givng the feds WAY more than we ever got back. Nope, no help from Uncle Sam there.

Next up. Interstate highways....Gee, would that fall under interstate commerce. Maybe. I dunno. Since drinking does, I suppose an interate highway , which was designed for the sole purpose of moving the military across the country and furthing trade might fall under that. Example invalidated.

I've used the postal service because the government has an effective monopoly on letters. Parcels, I shop elsewhere. Again, I've no real beef, as that is commerce related. Most mail is buisness realted.

I've never made use of the libaray, and while I've been to the smithsonian, I found it nothing so spectacular that only the feds could have done it.

Once again, I stress that my distaste for government is mostly a distaste for FEDERAL government. I DONT HAVE A FUCKING PROBLEM with limited welfare, police services, roads, ect.

I do have a problem with trying to force a one size fits all solution onto a nation with 300 million people in it. Travel around a little, there are sections of this country more alien than a great deal of places in Europe. Do you really believe that a set of social programs is going to fly in New York City and Rural Mississippi? Do you think it SHOULD?

Government is, by its very nature, wasteful, and frequently evil. If you have to give it power, you should give it as little as you can get away with, and if you have to dole out big chunks of authority, do it at the local and state level where you can keep an eye on it.

Would it be bad if you took whatever percentage of your Federal income tax goes towards federal welfare programs, and sent it to your state's welfare program instead? You'd cut out a whole level of red tape and waste. You'd also not have people not from the area telling you how to spend it, how to run your program, or taking the money and using it for something else entirely.

Unless it is a task that ONLY the feds can do, and the constitution says they can do, then they shouldnt be doing it.

As for big companies, yeah, they have their problems, and should be subject to rules to prevent them from violatiing our rights. But last time a company got out of hand, I didnt see any world wars, or atomic bombs, or concentration camps. I'm still waiting for a board of directors to order some genocide. Not saying they dont kill people, but not on the size and scope of government.

Look at what large, well funded governments do. They spend a lot of money buidling huge ass machines to go kill people. Then they get bored and use them. I'm not overly impressed by our governments ability to handle anything other than kicking ass. As such, I'd rather leave most of my money at home, and if politicians have to play with it, I want it to be guys in my county that I have access to.

By the way, this whole "You're not safe without the government doing shit" arguement is the same one they used to pass Patriot, and to invade Iraq. A whole nation thinking that the sky will fall without D.C. holding it up. Half the country thinks terrorists will kill us all if we dont give the federal government more money and power, and the other thinks that the poor will grow in number and starve and the economy will collapse and there will be no more cops or fire departments unless the Feds get more money and power.

Either way they win.

Stephen,

Facts, as you point out, don't lie. So let's look at some in light of your post, shall we? But let's look at DuPage County, specifically.

Public Education

You wrote: My shitty public school was mostly a product of LOCAL property taxes, and state funding.

The Facts: Although you are correct that a majority of funding came from local property taxes and state funding, in 2001 Federal Funding amounted to 32 Million Dollars for the DuPage County School District. No small amount. But Federal funding (which all public school districts receive) is based on community income levels. DuPage (as you know) is a highly affluent community and thus receives less (but it still receives some) Federal funding. As far as State funding, it is comparable with Federal funding, again based on income levels.

Further you described your school as "shitty". Not sure what you mean exactly by this (unless you are using your posts as an example of how bad your education was?). The DuPage County School district has a consistently higher per student spending number than the rest of the State of Illinois. Conversely, on the ACT scores (the tests that Illinois) DuPage County consistantly scores above the rest of the State of Illinois.

As a parent, these are things I look for in a public school system. DuPage County seems like a good school district - certainly not shitty.

Law Enforcement:

In 2001, the Department of Justice gave 1.1 million dollars to the State of Illinois for Law Enforcement tools.

In 2005, DuPage County (alone) received 8.8 Million dollars in Federal Funding for various County wide projects. $250,000 of which went to The County's Sheriff Office for purchasing new law enforcement equipment.

As far as your claim that local police do nothing (and do not work with Federal Agencies):

"The DuPage County Auto Theft Task Force, known as BATTLE (Beat Auto Theft Through Law Enforcement), addresses vehicle theft and fraud through a variety of resources such as Crime Stoppers programs, insurance companies, and local, county, and federal police agencies, in a coordinated effort to identify and arrest offenders.

In 2001, BATTLE conducted 133 investigations resulting in 95 arrests and 44 convictions.[1] BATTLE recovered 98 stolen vehicles worth an estimated $2 million dollars."

Not Bad.

Finally, since the early Nineties, the FBI has been increasingly involved in Interstate nad INTRA-state policing efforts in every state. It has greatly helped Law enforcement in every state by working together in apprehending criminals who use state-lines as a safety. By working together with Federal Law Enforcement agencies, state Law Enforcement agencies have served their individual communities better, by being more connected.

That's from the FBI, by the way. Turns out you might want to call them about that stolen stereo.

Stephen, please stop your blathering about stuff you don't know. The facts for your claims are just not there. In fact, they support the opposite of your assanine claims.

Look it up - open a book - or just shut up!

I bet Biederman found out a lot of those facts via websites on the World Wide Web.

The World Wide Web...who was it that funded the research and development that led to the creation of that?

Maybe Lactar knows, since he uses the internet.

Ok, lets lood at DuPage again. Saying 32 million out of context makes it sound like a lot of money, but its a fairly minor percentage of what the school gets, and certainly a VERY small percentage of what money they pay the feds that is used for education. You failed to refute point number 1, which is not that DuPage recieved no fuding, but that they recieved less than they would have if they'd kept the money in the county.

Yes they spend more money, and yes they teach the test to drive up stanadardized test scores. If thats what education means to you, by all means, send your kids there. Fact of the matter is, private schools in the chicagoland area (not just DuPage) tend to spend, in some cases, HALF per student, and get better test scores. In our school, we had all kinds of kids get into great schools, what those statistics wont tell you is that a great deal of them were back home in a semester or two. We failed out of universities in DROVES. The schools were pretty shitty. I got a 32 on the ACT, by the way, but that did nothing to prepare me for life after High School.

As for the police, well, 250,000 is what some folks in Naperville spend on a good vacation. DuPage could have made up that money a thousand times if the Feds didnt give it to them. Once again, its an affluent community. How they duped the government into thinking they needed a quarter mil is beyond me, but hey, they're dumbasses, and that only furthers the argument that federal money doesnt go where it ought to.

I never said they didnt work with the feds, in fact, I states that they do interstate crime. As for calling them over a broken stereo, well, thats cute, but pretty worthless.

1.1 million to the state of illinois? Thats a fucking joke and we both know it. Illinois could raise that money on its own and nobody would ever notice. Of course, Illinois has its own unique budget issues, but none the less, thats no reason the Feds should be involved.

8.8 million? 1.1 Million? 250,000? You really think these areas NEED federal money? Or are they just trying to get back a bit of what they put in?

2 million in stolen cars returned, wow. Congrats, because that's really what its all about. You know what helps me believe all the crap about the media ignoring stories to support the White House? Because they did that sort of thing there, too. The only crimes that made the police blotter were DUIs, auto theft, mailbox vandalism, and theft under 3000. Sometimes a kid would get nailed for possession too. Keeps the image of the town good if you dont write about people trying to snatch kids out of the Jewel parking lot, or assualts, or rapes, ect. And whats really spiffy is if you can talk people out of filing reports too, because then none of it shows up on official crime statistics, and property values go up, and theres no investigation to fail. Go up there sometime, spend about 6 months. It's a quite place, but law enforcement won't save your ass.

See, the fact that DuPage gets ANY money, with it't fairly high income levels, proves that your federal re-distribution of wealth is inherently flawed. The ONLY reason it would be needed, is if there was a HUGE discrepancy between one state or another, and basic services could not be obtained by the poorer state on its own. If this is the case, if federal funding is needed, why is DuPage, one of the richest in the country, on the dole? Why not just skip the 250,000 in taxes in the first place, and keep it in the county?

Stephen,

Tell us the truth: you still live with your parents, right?

Not sure I follow your argument. Is it that you think DuPage County doesn't get enough in Federal Funds; or is it that you think they get too much? On the one hand, you complain about the facts and figures I referenced as being "a joke", but then you complain that DuPage isn't getting it's fair share. Which is it?

As far as redistribution of wealth, wouldn't that mean that DuPage receive less in Federal funding versus areas that need it more? And by your account, isn't that what happens? Again, very confusing.

Finally, if you are going to continue to post comments, can you please try using some facts. I know they can be scary (particularly when they may ruin your hypothesis), but your childish ramblings and flailings about on the keyboard are of no use here (or anywhere, except maybe the White House).

Calm down, take a a deep breath and think for a change. Otherwise, go away.

If somebody needs help, or a program, ect, they should first go to their town/city. If the town or city cannot, for whatever reason, create or fund a needed program, it should go to the county. If the county cannot, it should go to the state, and from there, to the federal. There is no program mentioned there that DuPage cannot afford on its own.

If you are confused, I don't blame you. I was putting togeather a larger idea rather piecemeal, but you are right on both parts.

A.) A county like DuPage would be better off keeping more money at home, and

B.) A county like DuPage certainly is not needy enough to qualify for any sort of assistance financially.

Now, in case you want to say "DuPage is rich, while others are poor, why cant they be taxed a bit to help out" I say, fine, for needed federal programs, go for it. However, what sense does it make to give them 250,000? If they had just paid a little less in taxes, they could have funded their own shit. And I doubt that that 250,000 started out as 250,000, it was probably 300,000 or more before waste and corruption took their percentages. So DuPage gets their program, everybody saves money, and they can still be taxed.

So in theory, if an area is getting back less than it pays, it should cut its taxes back by whatever they are getting, and pay only the amount over, thus cutting out the federal middleman.

Stephen,

For the first time you have clearly defined your argument. It is an absurd, unrealistic, utterly naive and completely wrong argument, but you have stated it clearly and succinctly. And it sounds alot like George Bush's rationale for cutting taxes and dismantling social security. Of course, this kind of ridiculous logic (by Bush) has caused unprecendented deficits that will destroy our economy. You are very much on the wrong side of logic as well as humanity.

Its not illogical, cutting out the middleman makes sense. It's not inhumane, there will be more money for everybody. I'm not sure I can think of what state cannot afford whatever it's share of the home heating money is, especially since all that money is coming from the people in the first place. What we have now, is a system where we send a shitload of money to the feds, they use a large chunk to bomb other countries, then we have our congresspeople fight over trying to get some of that money back to their areas.

Granted, randomly slashing the budget isn't really a fair solution, however, a longterm effort to get most of those social program funds circulating in smaller circles wherever possible would be good for the longterm.

Deficits only happen when you spend more than you take in. It doesnt make sense to do that unless its absolutly needed. Frankly, I think there ought to be an automatic war tax that kicks in anytime we deploy troops. Might make people think harder about that sort of thing, and would keep the budget from being thrown out of whack every time somebody decides to save a foreign land.

Taxes and Spending should be cut or raised togeather, except in the most dire circumstances. I'm with you there. I just don't like seeing piles of money going back and forth, and shrinking along the way.

Stephen,

What you are proposing is trickle down economics - I know you are too young to remember that. But, trust me, it doesn't work. It's magic economic thinking for morons. And it's con men who sell it. I Realize that you know nothing about economics, budgets, accounting, market theory, game theory and all the other things that make up a modern day economy - just based on your posts. And none of our problems will ever be solved by your "cut out the middleman, cut taxes and spending, and let the locals take care of the locals" bullshit. It was disproven years ago - again, read a book - look it up - or just shut up!

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